r/technology Mar 01 '23 Take My Energy 1

Airbnb Is Banning People Who Are ‘Closely Associated’ With Already-Banned Users | As a safety precaution, the tech company sometimes bans users because the company has discovered that they “are likely to travel” with another person who has already been banned. Business

https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3pajy/airbnb-is-banning-people-who-are-closely-associated-with-already-banned-users
39.7k Upvotes

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u/americanadiandrew Mar 01 '23

More quietly, for a decade now, the company has had background checks completed on its users. Since 2016, they have been completed by a third-party service called that claims on its website to complete background checks in less than 0.3 seconds. The speed is a necessity——the site has 6.6 million active listings—but it also leads to bans over matters as trivial as a decade-old misdemeanor related to an unleashed dog.

Wow I wonder how many other companies do secret background checks.

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u/reditum Mar 01 '23

Wait until you find out how much information data brokers and credit bureaus have on you.

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u/pfcfillmore Mar 01 '23

Your insurance companies use your consumer index report for your ratings. Depending on the company its a pretty large factor and can lead to a complete denial of insurance if your score is low enough.

Source: Am insurance producer.

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u/Firm-Albatros Mar 01 '23

What goes into a consumer index report? Asking for a friend

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u/pfcfillmore Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23 All-Seeing Upvote Ally

Similar things that impact your actually credit. Your consumer index is used as a "Soft Hit" so it doesn't impact your actual credit score. That being said things like, late bills, medical payments, collections, bankruptcy are all used to determine how likely you are to be able to pay your bill regularly. If the score is low you can be labeled as a "likely defector" and the rate is higher so they can try to make the money back on writing the business more quickly. I don't agree with the practice, especially because raising the rate for this reason also makes it more likely to not be able to pay it, but most companies use it as a major factor. Another large determination on your rate is how often you change companies. On average it takes 3 years of premiums before a new customer is break even, This is due to the cost of underwriting, marketing, licenses, and so on.

Edit: Here is some more info on Customer Rating Index (CRI) from an insurance perspective for those that are curious:

https://content.naic.org/cipr-topics/credit-based-insurance-scores

Edit 2: Here is where you can request your report through Lexus Nexus which is a commonly used Loss History Report & CRI reporting company. Once again, I don't endorse these reports use, but information is power and I am here to inform:

https://consumer.risk.lexisnexis.com/request

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u/voidsrus Mar 01 '23

Another large determination on your rate is how often you change companies.

so you're essentially punished for wanting a less-shitty insurance carrier/rate?

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u/Sagarmatra Mar 01 '23

From the pov of a shitty insurance carrier? Yes.

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u/Switchy_Goofball Mar 01 '23

There’s no such thing as a non-shitty insurance carrier. It’s baked into the business model to be as shitty as you can get away with

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u/inarizushisama Mar 02 '23

A race to the bottom like.

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u/DaleRojo Mar 01 '23

Yes, most companies don't turn a profit on policies until the 2nd or 3rd year. So not sticking around hurts their bottom line, so they'll charge more for people who hop around. Still, in your best interest in most cases to shop around especially in this market.

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u/averyfinename Mar 01 '23

our business insurance rate, with zero claims over its 15+ year policy lifespan, has more than doubled from first-year costs because we haven't changed companies in that time. building, office within, equipment within, what we do and business volume are all the same or very similar to first-year as well (i.e. what they're covering hasn't changed)

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u/DaleRojo Mar 01 '23

Which is why I said it's still in your best interest to shop. Some companies run a tight ship, so that may be just inflation plus some automatic 3-5% inflation guard. Nothing can be done there if they are legit.

Others are like Florida insurance companies, taking massive risks and holding off bankruptcy barely by raising rates.

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u/omegadirectory Mar 01 '23

Just from inflation alone, your premium today would be 65% higher in nominal dollar terms than it was 15 years ago.

This is a super-rough calculation assuming 3% inflation for the first 13 years and 6% the last two years.

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u/pfcfillmore Mar 01 '23

Most policies have an automatic increase to property values to adjust for inflation on such things at buildings and business property. It would be safe to assume that your company has also had to adjust for the increase cost of doing business and raise the price of services or products. Or you must be the proud owner of The Arizona Ice Tea Company.

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u/pfcfillmore Mar 01 '23

To a degree yes.

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u/voidsrus Mar 01 '23

the insurance industry disgusts me, really needs more regulations (that aren’t written by their lobbyists)

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u/ontopofyourmom Mar 02 '23

It is already one of the most heavily regulated of all industries

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u/Donkey__Balls Mar 01 '23

Does it also follow the same bullshit algorithms as credit scores?

I paid off my student loans and my car last year, right before I moved. As soon as I did both my credit score went way down because I had half as many open lines of credit. It was still very good but it’s a really really competitive housing market out here, it was a pain in the ass getting my score that high and it took a short dive just because I paid off my stuff ahead of time?? What bullshit.

And then I had Experian and Transunion trying to sell my their services for “credit building”, basically just flagrantly advertising that you have to game the system and they’re extorting everyone.

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u/asdaaaaaaaa Mar 02 '23

When you understand that a credit score is basically rating how much money credit/loan companies can make off of you, it makes a lot more sense. Remember, they wrote the rules effectively, so why not punish anything that costs them money or makes their job slightly harder?

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u/L3G1T1SM3 Mar 01 '23

Can I pull my own report to see it?

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u/bjb13 Mar 01 '23

Got to Free Credit Report. There are three companies and you can request your free report from each of them annually. You should check all of them.

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u/wookofwallstreet Mar 01 '23

Since the pandemic started, it is now free to do it weekly rather than annually.

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u/bjb13 Mar 01 '23

Thanks for the update.

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u/CrazyKilla15 Mar 02 '23

Is nobody else going to mention this is basically the "scary chinese social credit score" except American, decades old, actively expanding in more dystopian directions, and nobodies fearmongering about it or making memes about "-20000 social credit for bad influence friends" even though thats literally done right now.

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u/lucidrage Mar 01 '23

How much does credit card churning affect your score?

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u/makemeking706 Mar 01 '23

How long before we start adjusting rates in real time based on things like visiting particular businesses, driving through particular locations/intersections, and following too closely on the highway?

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u/reditum Mar 01 '23

Well, most companies provide an incentive for you to use their app to monitor your driving and adjust your score. So it already happens.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23

[deleted]

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u/HYRHDF3332 Mar 01 '23

I was amazed at what a detailed report I got after buying a new vehicle in 2018. Like enough detail to give me a handful of tickets if the cops had seen it.

I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't already started passing laws to let your car automatically give you a ticket when you speed.

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u/cnrtechhead Mar 01 '23

I’m actually kind of surprised they haven’t already started passing laws to let your car automatically give you a ticket when you speed.

Modern society is starting to make that cabin in the woods more enticing every day.

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u/HYRHDF3332 Mar 01 '23

Right? And I'm not even some luddite, I love technology. I just dread the inevitable uses I know some of it will be put to.

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u/pinnr Mar 01 '23

Europe passed a law where all new cars must alert the driver when they are speeding.

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u/HYRHDF3332 Mar 01 '23

That is the exact world that image recognition will usher in. "Johnson, I see you were at the bar until 2 am last night on a work night, we are docking your salary do to your reduced productivity we assume you will have today".

What's this? Oh, it's an email from my health insurance that they are raising my rates because I've been to McDonald's twice in the same week, which indicates poor eating habits.

Or you show up for dinner at your new SO's house and grandma wants to know about the 8 times you visited a strip club.

It's going to a great world /s

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u/makemeking706 Mar 01 '23

I can definitely see this happening, especially as we chip away at the right to privacy.

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u/ClavinovaDubb Mar 01 '23

With the wealthy being able to buy falsified data to give off the appearance of a model citizen.

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u/SammySticks Mar 01 '23

Show us your consumer index report to prove your source. /s

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u/pfcfillmore Mar 01 '23

We can't see the index report, underwriters can, but we can tell the score might be low if you have no tickets or accidents, maintained insurance, and it still comes back decline. Usually a good indicator.

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u/ChaplnGrillSgt Mar 01 '23

Any time I do one of those "identity verification" questions for payroll or something I'm absolutely blown away by some of the questions.

"What is the exact date and time of your 3rd oil change on your second car?"

"What is your 3rd preset on your radio?"

"How many times did you urinate on January 6th, 1998?"

And somehow they have this information.

(obviously this is hyperbole, but the questions are still incredibly invasive)

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u/Amelaclya1 Mar 01 '23

Whatever answers they have aren't always accurate either. I had to do an identity verification once for T-Mobile because my credit card got flagged somehow (even though I was using the same one for years at that point). And apparently I'm not me, because the woman said I answered the questions wrong. It was things like "what was your first car" and "where were you living in 1999" type stuff too lol. Always fun being treated like an identity thief for trying to use your own card.

It's like those sites that scrape from public records. My info is somehow not accurate on those either because it thinks my mother, me, and some lady in King county, WA are all the same person.

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u/what-i-cant-hear-you Mar 01 '23

My pet theory is these questions are sometimes designed to be an additional means of data collection. A lot of information can be inferred from these security questions, with the assumption one is answering them truthfully, of course.

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u/bassman1805 Mar 01 '23

"What is your favorite book?"

Fuck me, how old was I when I answered that question? I've gone through some phases.

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u/what-i-cant-hear-you Mar 01 '23

My pet theory is these questions are sometimes designed to be an additional means of data collection. A lot of information can be inferred from these security questions, with the assumption one is answering them truthfully, of course.

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u/ChaplnGrillSgt Mar 01 '23

I imagine it's like Captcha where they know the correct answer to some but not all of it. So, like you say, a few questions could just be additional data collection while the others are for verification.

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u/UnfinishedProjects Mar 01 '23

And just wait until we find out how much of that data gets leaked or stolen without any of the people who the data came from being alerted.

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u/ycpeng Mar 01 '23

I believe they’ve also been banning closely associated people for this amount of time as well. Back in 2018, my brother had an AirBNB reservation in his name for a month. Got a notification one day that they ran his background check and he was banned from the app forever. So I decided that I would set up an AirBNB account and make the reservation in my name since I have a clean background check. Before even making a reservation, I was informed that I was banned from the app forever for violating terms and conditions and that I couldn’t appeal it.

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u/vannucker Mar 01 '23

What in your brother's background did they ban him for?

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u/ycpeng Mar 01 '23

He has an assault charge from 10 years ago (at the time of the ban).

To be clear, I’m not arguing with their decision to ban him. Just highlighting that they have been banning by association for awhile, despite what the title implies.

Although, I did find it annoying that they weren’t transparent about the background check requirement up front. I’m sure it was buried in their terms of service or something similar, but to find out weeks after you booked a place and after you booked flights that you’re not allowed to stay there seemed unnecessarily stressful.

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u/clo3o5 Mar 01 '23

They cancelled my bookings in Tokyo the day before I left because I thought I was being proactive by veryfing with my ID

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u/thekiyote Mar 02 '23

How long companies are allowed to look back and for what is probably going to be something we need to legally codify as the ability to look back gets closer and closer to forever.

Back before everything was digitized, how far back you could look was kept in check by the cost. But now, it’s instantaneous for virtually free.

If we’re not careful, we’re going to be end up in a situation where the punishment that people effectively get will be much worse than what the judge hands out.

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u/MADFAG_ Mar 02 '23 edited Mar 02 '23

the punishment that people effectively get will be much worse than what the judge hands out.

The term is “collateral consequences.” Crimes that do not justify a life sentence result in just that.

I’m imagining a future where elderly people are banned from nursing homes because a background check turned up a misdemeanor theft charge from 60 years prior.

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u/Greful Mar 01 '23

My friend got busted with weed 5 years ago and he got instantly banned by the background check when he tried to create an account 2 months ago. His gf of about 6 months got her years old account banned hours later just for knowing him. She actually appealed and got her account back and they used Airbnb to go on the trip they were planning.

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u/Im_Balto Mar 01 '23

Man I would’ve gone to vrbo if Airbnb did that to me.

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u/Greful Mar 01 '23

That was plan b. Apparently most people have their properties on both sites these days

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u/Energylegs23 Mar 01 '23

And now we've stepped into Barbarian

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u/Greful Mar 01 '23

Yea. I got half off. I just needed to hose down the basement cages. Fair deal IMO

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u/bonerjamz2001 Mar 01 '23

Free breastmilk tho

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u/Tad0422 Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23

As a cabin owner who rents out their home in the mountains, this is correct. Most owners are both Airbnb and VRBO. We are also on Booking dot com, Houfy and take direct bookings.

Even if you find a place on Airbnb, search around as you can probably find their direct booking site and save on the fees.

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u/Socrathustra Mar 01 '23

Or, you know, hotels. These days they're the same price and require no weird cleanup on your part.

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u/Soup_69420 Mar 01 '23

and require no weird cleanup on your part

Yeah but I still don’t want the maid stepping on my army guys while I’m gone.

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u/BarrySix Mar 01 '23

How did Airbnb link these two people?

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 02 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/katszenBurger Mar 01 '23

IP history?

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u/The_Werefrog Mar 01 '23

The background check knows your Facebook account if one of you isn't set to private. Even if you don't have a Facebook account, Facebook checks your relatives who do have Facebook, and when they all give your name and phone number, Facebook creates a shadow account for you to chart the relationship.

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u/Quirky-Skin Mar 01 '23

The article states she used her BFs credit card who is a banned user so pretty straight forward.

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u/Djamalfna Mar 01 '23

Facebook will sell lists of who your top friends are. They'll sell all of your checkins, how many times you checked in with that person. How many times you checked into the same place as that person. It's more than enough to determine a complete picture that you travel with that person.

Google too. If you have location services enabled Google tracks your every movement and builds lists of people whose phones were near yours, and establishes a proximity list. If your phone is near another person's phone for the entire time you traveled across the country, they know you're together and can sell that.

Apple tracks all this info too, but so far they don't appear to sell it. That will probably change someday when they decide the cost is worth it.

Every free service out there is data-mining the shit out of you using as much information as you can get it, and then selling it.

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u/velifer Mar 01 '23

"This service is so shitty I'm going to put in extra effort so I can use it!"

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u/Greful Mar 01 '23

Nah. It was a little more complex than that. Plane tickets were already bought but there were some last minute changes in the sleeping arrangements so they had to kinda scramble to find a place.

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u/speqtral Mar 01 '23

Interesting that the $40 ABB service fee is roughly the cost of a background check. 🤔

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u/ActualWait8584 Mar 01 '23

Paying way too much. We pay $6 for National criminal search.

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u/wishfulllkiki Mar 01 '23

It’s definitely not secret. I used it once and they make it pretty clear that they run a check on you

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u/hcbaron Mar 01 '23

Yup, all you need is a subscription to LexisNexis, the world's largest public database with legal records and public records.

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u/Timlang60 Mar 01 '23

They should consider also banning a-hole, lying hosts who misrepresent what you'll be getting for your money. That would add value.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 02 '23

[deleted]

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u/varyingopinions Mar 01 '23

I got a whole house on air BNB once for my 4 person family. When we got there, it was a full house... with a tenant in the back half and someone renting out the renovated garage...

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u/pinnr Mar 01 '23

I use ABNB a lot as a guest and haven’t been burned yet. I’m curious, did the unit have good reviews? I always check reviews, but idk if there’s a way for hosts to do a bait and switch with reviews.

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u/lswhat87 Mar 01 '23

I use Airbnb because my wife and I visit national parks so more remote areas where there are no hotels and we travel with our dog and have yet to encounter any issues. We only go for superhost listings and really read reviews before booking anything.

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u/matttech88 Mar 01 '23

I'm currently in a hotel room that was 105 after fees. Nice room, king bed, unlimited hot water, and it's gonna have breakfast.

Air bnb would have charged me double that for none of the nice stuff.

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u/catmissionnow Mar 01 '23

Plus charge you a cleaning fee while outlining everything you need to clean before check out.

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u/matttech88 Mar 01 '23

True. I got lucky with the only air bnb I ever stayed in being relaxed, but it was for a month. It was a bit more frusterating than a hotel but manageable.

The other options were messes. One of my coworkers at the time had the funniest shit happen to him.

We were interns at a factory doing engineering work. The person he was air bnbing from was one of the line workers.

No kitchen access. Bathroom access on scheduled use. Street parking his car. He got a hot plate and a twin bed and was told he couldn't make any noise.

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u/GreenGoldBear Mar 02 '23

No kitchen access. Bathroom access on scheduled use. Street parking his car. He got a hot plate and a twin bed and was told he couldn't make any noise.

He didn’t have a scheduled time to make noise? Maybe their intention was to have noise time combined with the scheduled bathroom visits.

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u/Fireproofspider Mar 01 '23

This is funny how it basically reversed itself. Before AirBnb was a great way to save money during stays. I remember renting a 4 bedroom house in the mid 2010s for like $80 a night with no other significant fees.

Also, hotels didn't really get cheaper. It's airBnbs that got more expensive.

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u/matttech88 Mar 01 '23

I travel in hotels 100× as often as I used to now that I'm traveling for work. The price of $100 per night is fine. It's consistent.

Air Bnb is just a cancer on apartments for me. I was trying to find a month long lease this past summer and could find fucking nothing. I asked the local chamber of commerce, and they recommended air bnb. The hosts bought up all the available apartment spaces and turned them into crappy air bnbs that cost 3k a month.

I was at a loss, had to pick an air bnb that was half an hour away from my workplace. It was the only way to make it work at that still ran me 1.4 k.

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u/drevolut1on Mar 01 '23

Mentioning small claims is your answer here. We got catfished on a place once and with pictures of the unit vs screenshots of the site and Airbnb waffled on refunding us.

I said that false advertising was exactly that and businesses are beholden to such laws, mentioned I would have to investigate a small claims suit and got my refund shortly after.

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u/pk3671 Mar 01 '23

You have to read all the reviews and the description carefully. I rent a condo in a ski area. I compete with a neighbor who does the same but my neighbor is not renting the who place out so you don’t have access to a kitchen. He lives in that closed off area. If you read the description he says you have access to a microwave and other kitcheny stuff but he says not a kitchen so folks have no recourse. There are folks who just want to bunk somewhere and his place is fine. But I have read his reviews and 20% complain that they did not get what they wanted.

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u/I_miss_your_mommy Mar 01 '23

Good thing I don't know anyone. I knew this would eventually pay off.

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u/mewdejour Mar 01 '23

I know of people but I don't know people and that's enough for me.

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u/HurricaneAlpha Mar 01 '23

You: "people exist"

Sees how people are.

You: "hmm, no thank you."

I like your style.

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u/misconfig_exe Mar 01 '23

The social credit authority has deemed lack of association with upstanding members of society to be a risky indicator. Therefore, your request to rent John's cabin in the woods is denied.

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u/PuzzleheadedBath7314 Mar 01 '23

How many degrees of Kevin Bacon are we talking about here?

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u/issue9mm Mar 01 '23

The only way to know for sure is to ban Kevin Bacon

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u/bigbear75 Mar 01 '23

Aside: I brought up 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon while out drinking with some friends (all older 20's) and no one knew what I was talking about. Ridiculous. Had an "old man moment" out with my peers, smh.

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u/TheNotSoGreatPumpkin Mar 01 '23

They must all be 7+ degrees separated.

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u/BroadShoulderedBeast Mar 01 '23

I was thinking the same thing. As soon as you ban the closely-associated, more people become closely-associated to banned people, so then you ban those closely-associated people, which creates new closely-associated people, then you ban them, which…

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u/neo101b Mar 01 '23

It sounds like everyone is 3 people away from being banned.

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u/Sisyphuslivinlife Mar 01 '23

The first thing that came to my mind, which even my mind found odd, was "hmmm interesting, could I possibly find a way to get everyone banned?"

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u/listenyall Mar 01 '23

Yeah--it's one thing if there is a terrible married couple who has been banned and is trying to get around it by setting up a new account in the husband's name when the wife's account was banned or something like that, or even if it's limited to people who have actually stayed together in an AirBnb before with someone who has been banned.

But "likely to travel" with someone is too non-specific for my taste.

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u/MonteBurns Mar 01 '23

I worked at a campground. One year, they had to ban a group of people. For some reason, despite having broken all parties out as they checked in, only the original bookers account got flagged. Now this place was pretty tolerant. You had to act up to get banned. So the next year, I’m working the desk and someone calls in to hold 10 spots. Sure, they just need to call within the next 24 hours. Welllll guess who calls to claim her reservation?? That was awkward. I put her on hold and my boss took care of it. Then cancelled and called the others.

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u/No_Ferret2216 Mar 01 '23

Maybe they’ll have a separate list for banned associates

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u/Bakoro Mar 01 '23

That's a good insight, and the solution would be some kind of marker for being a derivative ban. Don't ban people just because they are associated by degrees to a primary banned person, only first degree associates.

That is a truly massive graph though.

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u/t3hcoolness Mar 01 '23

The ban reason would likely be "closely-associated", and they would not ban others for being associated with people banned like that. If they did, it's not a "haha what if this chain reaction happened," they would literally ban the entire platform, and it would've already happened. So no, this won't happen.

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u/mazzivewhale Mar 01 '23

Yeah the easy fix would just be having markers for what kind of ban it was. A marker for the directly banned individual and a marker for the associated banned individual and any associates of the associate would not be pulled up in this net.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 02 '23

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u/HanaBothWays Mar 01 '23

This is another thing you don’t (usually) have to deal with if you just stick with hotels.

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u/McFatty7 Mar 01 '23

I stick with hotels just out of principle. Even if hotels check ID, they’re only doing it to make sure there’s no wanted fugitives hiding in their hotel.

I don’t want to contribute to the housing crisis by allowing people to become rent-seekers.

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u/acosmichippo Mar 01 '23

also i don’t think i’ll ever trust an airbnb to be private. as in hidden web cams, microphones, etc.

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u/GreatApeGoku Mar 01 '23

That's what's baffled me about people just now turning away from ABnB. From DAY ONE it's been shady and people have found cameras or had the owners show up randomly. Apparently that didn't matter as much as the bank accounts taking a hit though because only since the rise in "hidden" fees have people started to question whether it's actually worth it or not. "Yeah I could end up on pornhub, but I'm saving $20!"

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u/stormhunter2 Mar 01 '23

hotels are also zoned to provide the services they do, if they don't, they're more likely to be held accountable than an airbnb, imo. Additionally, if there is noise issues, the hotel's staff's job is to resolve it, an individual airbnb may or may not do that

Not to mention, no hidden fees

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u/btgeekboy Mar 01 '23

I mostly agree with you, but hotels certainly can and do have hidden fees - so called “resort fees”

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u/Kaelin Mar 01 '23

Luckily govt is moving to ban resort fees

U.S. Moves to Ban Hotels' Hidden Resort Fees

https://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/202302/9369/

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u/az116 Mar 01 '23

I'm not sure where you're getting this idea that hotels are doing background checks on customers. They're not checking for fugitives. Most hotels I've been to just glance at the ID to make sure it matches the credit card, and that includes very high end places. In the United States I can think of maybe one or two hotels that scanned or photocopied it. But they'e not doing it in order to run a background check. I have had a number of hotels in Europe photocopy my passport, but again, they're not using it to do any sort of background check.

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u/Sonamdrukpa Mar 01 '23

Lol exactly, hotels don't give a shit if you're wanted or not. And if they photocopy your ID, it's only so that they can put you on a list of people to not let back in if you damage things or otherwise cause trouble.

Source: worked at a hotel

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23

Hotels have staff that can kick out rowdy guests quickly.

And it's not unheard of for them to call police and get IDs from everyone being kicked out so they can be banned. Meaning they can't rent rooms from that chain and if they're found at one of them trespassing charges can be pressed.

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u/Greful Mar 01 '23

Ok but this isn’t that. In this case a person can get banned for simply knowing someone who was banned. Hotels don’t track who you are friends with to see if they are banned and then ban you because of something that happened that you weren’t even involved in

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u/SuperToxin Mar 01 '23

Yea so it’s probably better to use hotels.

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u/fffangold Mar 01 '23

Hotels have been better for awhile. Airbnb prices are crazy high. I can stay at a hotel cheaper, and be expected to do far less work maintaining my room. And most hotels have extra amenities, easy parking, and a location near where I actually want to be.

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u/YouJabroni44 Mar 01 '23

Yeah I prefer not having to clean too much. Keep things pretty tidy, sure. Scrub everything down, no thanks. I'm on vacation for a reason lol

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23

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u/HotTakes4HotCakes Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23

And you're expected to do it because there's every chance in the world the person that owns that property isn't actually local. They're half a continent away, renting out properties they snatched off the market for cheap, so they're offsetting the work to you. Part of the reason you pay the cleaning fees is because they have to pay somebody local to come out to clean and reset it for the next guests.

In other words, you're still paying for room service, but getting much less of out of it. May as well go to a hotel.

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u/Skelito Mar 01 '23

Yeah AirBnBs suck for this reason. Over priced with too many rules and no customer service. Last year I stayed at one in DT Toronto for a show and it was a hassle finding the parking spot for that condo. Then we were given a key fob that was didnt scan you into the room so we had to coordinate with the Host so they could call the front desk to reset the fob. While the condo security allowed AirBnbs we werent allowed to deal with the front lobby staff (obviously) to get anything fixed and it just made the whole experience lackluster. The Wifi didnt even work to top it all off. If we used a hotel it would have been a way better experience.

The only time id use an AirBnb again is traveling to a remote cottagey location where their arent hotels available.

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u/mc2880 Mar 01 '23

Wait until you get the checkin list the day you arrive

So far this winter

"No sheets, no pillows - bring your own"

"No garbage, take everything with you"

"Oh, the driveway isn't accessible in the winter, you need to walk in, it's about 100ft" Spoiler - fairly vertical drop, no stairs, 300ft from road to cottage.

Fuck everything about AirBNB now.

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u/Quasic Mar 01 '23

As with so many innovative tech startups, after enough people try to monetize it, it became worse than what it was an alternative for.

Where I live, there are few to no taxis, and Uber costs a lot more than taxis used to.

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u/Vakieh Mar 01 '23

There is still one great use case for AirBnB - their ID verification is garbage, they accept 1-time credit cards, and nobody appears to reject first-time users. So all those rules about doing whatever... you can just blatantly ignore. Clean this? Fuck off, that's what I'm paying you for. Don't use this or that? Lol, don't have it in the house then.

I'm sure the loopholes will close eventually, and at that point it's back to hotels, but until then, ride the fuckers into the dirt.

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u/TheChewyWaffles Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23

I just used AirBnB for the first and last time last summer after being told to take out the trash, take all the bedding off the beds and put it in the washing machine, do a bunch of other cleaning and THEN being charged like a $300 cleaning fee. It was ludicrous. I did the math and I could have rented two adjoining hotel rooms/suites for less than what the AirBnB would have cost and gotten free breakfast to boot.

What a terrible first impression of that service. No thanks.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23

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u/SimmonsReqNDA4Sex Mar 01 '23

Airbnb is most of the time still far cheaper for a large group over a longer stay in my experience.

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u/StrangerThanGene Mar 01 '23 Take My Energy

That's funny, because I banned Airbnb from my life because a closely associated friend of mine was charged $250 to clean up crumbs from a bag of chips on the kitchen counter.

Airbnb can 'ban' their way into non-existence.

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u/extrasponeshot Mar 01 '23

The clean up charge is absurd. The owner of one gave me a 1 star review and additional cleaning charge for a "browned towel" after we did everything they requested. Took out trash, did dishes, ran washer/dryer. And none of my guests know wtf this towel is. I could only assume it was a towel THEIR cleaning crew used.

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u/stormhunter2 Mar 01 '23

wtf? trash/dishes/laundry? Why even bother with an airbnb at that point? Isn't all of that stuff listed on the rental posting? If they require all of that, why not just select a hotel

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u/PooPooDooDoo Mar 01 '23

The ONLY value in an Airbnb is if you want to stay with a big group. Like I have kids, so we have used one to rent a place for a week near my in-laws. Hotel rooms would have worked, but not been as ideal since I’m not trying to have my kids stay in a separate room on their own. There are exceptions to that, like hotels with suites etc.

That being said, I would never use an Airbnb by myself or with just my wife. Hotels are almost always more ideal IMO.

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u/venustrapsflies Mar 01 '23

I'm finding that even for a big group of adults, airbnbs are still more expensive (depending on the city, I'm sure). Plus, it's a lot harder to ask a grown ass man to sleep in a tiny bunk or share a bed, which is pretty much a staple of larger houses.

By the time you find a place big enough to comfortably house a large group, you can be paying 50% more than if people just got hotel rooms with 2 beds apiece. Hotels can also offer group rates. Biggest downside is the lack of a private common area.

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u/Biobot775 Mar 01 '23

From the last few group stays between me and my SO, anything big enough to host more than 2 people usually has zero cookware, zero dishes and silverware, sometimes no fucking cups, often no paper towels and sometimes no toilet paper even.

If going alone for a short stay, it's too much work (in cleaning) and expense. If going with a group, basic amenities like cups are no longer provided.

I think these AirBnB owners are trying to make the properties as uncomfortable to actually spend time in as possible. And then they make you clean.

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u/babsa90 Mar 01 '23

Same here, Airbnb and hosts can get fucked. Hopefully the amount of bookings go down and they all lose their shit.

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u/Lexi_Banner Mar 01 '23

They've ruined housing markets across the globe, too. Good riddance to AirBnB.

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u/The_Starmaker Mar 01 '23

I’ve banned them for receiving pictures of bedbugs in the home and somehow still siding with the owner.

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u/lordzaior Mar 01 '23

My friend got fined a few days after the fact because they caught him having ONE too many guest than he wrote would be attending… they had it all on surveillance and were able to count people in the room

imo it is insane that cameras can be hidden and unmentioned in the ad. They should have to be mentioned and their locations should be listed and most importantly of all they should be marked up in some way… spray paint the camera case a bright orange or some shit idk, takes literally like a few min, but no host would ever do this cause that would require taking some responsibility on the homeowners side s

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u/someToast Mar 01 '23

Cameras cannot be hidden and unmentioned in the listing. Even cameras in outdoor or common areas should be called out. If you find one that wasn’t — especially in a bedroom or bathroom — report it to Airbnb.

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u/stormhunter2 Mar 01 '23

hidden and unmentioned in the ad

Pretty sure that's illegal, least in the US

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u/Chowmeen_Boi Mar 01 '23

The camera thing is especially weird. I stayed in an Airbnb last summer and did know there was a camera in the laundry room. It was a bit disturbing

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23

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u/Darth_Corleone Mar 01 '23

I'd pay extra to know they forced someone to watch all of the footage from my stay. ALL. OF. IT.

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u/Lexi_Banner Mar 01 '23

"Why do they keep wiggling it like that? Make it stop!"

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u/stormhunter2 Mar 01 '23

Time out, this is literally against the law (at least in the US and likely Canada). Did you not report this to airbnb/police? hidden cameras are a fat lawsuit.

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u/LanceCoolie Mar 01 '23

I got fucked by VRBO when I booked a house six months in advance for a long weekend with some friends at a big event where if you wait too long, all the accommodations in the area fill up. Nine days before the trip the host cancelled and told me she had accidentally double booked the place because she also had it listed on AirBNB. Transparent bullshit excuse that I don’t buy for a second - she almost certainly just got more money from whoever reserved it on AirBNB. VRBO’s policy is something like they will only help you if your host cancels within 72 hours of your trip, so I was left to find a replacement on my own. Because of the high volume of tourists, all we could do was share a shitty one bedroom apartment for three times the price of the other place. VRBO said I could submit the difference in cost for consideration for reimbursement and I did, and never heard from them again. A hotel would have made it work or compensated me for the inconvenience. Never again.

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u/DazedNConfucious Mar 01 '23

Never stayed at an Airbnb before. Is this a common thing?

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u/niberungvalesti Mar 01 '23

My personal rules are:

- No renting AirBnBs with no reviews

- Pick a nightly price range and stay in the median of your selection.

- Choose superhosts if possible.

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u/MurataMain Mar 01 '23

I've been scammed by a super host before. Fuck you Vera from Seattle. I'm pretty sure it's an entire company based on how many properties they have listed. Also they've listed some of their properties 5 times.

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u/Absurdity_Everywhere Mar 01 '23

While some people have encountered things like this, as an occasional air bnb user, I never have. In my experience, hotels and air bnb a both have positives and negatives, and which one makes sense depends on your specific needs and the nature of the trip. For me, generally I’d I’m only spending 1-3 days in a location a hotel is going to be the better option. For longer stays, or for larger groups, air bnb becomes a better value.

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u/Badfickle Mar 01 '23

No. It happens but this is mostly internet drama.

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u/Capt-Birdman Mar 01 '23

I have used Airbnb many times and I've never had a bad experience (in Portugal). No crazy fees, no horrible hosts, maybe I've been lucky, but seems this is very specific for America.

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u/chrisdh79 Mar 01 '23

From the article: Airbnb is banning people from using its site because of their mere association with other users the short-term rental company has deemed a safety risk and removed from the platform, a decision that highlights the imperfect security protocols that Airbnb employs.

In instances where a user is banned because of their association with another user deemed problematic, the user can only return to the platform if their problematic acquaintance successfully appeals the ban or if they are able to prove they are not “closely associated.”

In a statement, Airbnb confirmed to Motherboard that it does sometimes ban users because the company has discovered that they “are likely to travel” with another person who has already been banned, though a spokesperson wouldn’t say when this practice started or how often it occurs. The company said it does this as a “necessary safety precaution,” and a spokesperson said referring to such bans as merely a result of association is overly “simplistic.” But the process appears opaque; just this month, the company apologized and said it had made a “mistake” in banning the parents of right-wing activist Lauren Southern.

In recent years, Airbnb has prioritized the safety of the users on its international platform in an effort to combat concern that the platform puts either guests or hosts at risk. The company has publicized a decision to permanently ban parties after a series of shootings and deaths and threatened legal action against guests who break the rule.

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u/Krilion Mar 01 '23

Likely spouses are the #1. It would be easy to just have your husband/wife setup an account if yours got banned. With location data sharing, would be fairly easy to verify if they spend most of their time together or not.

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u/Stopman Mar 01 '23

People are speculating in this thread a ton. It’s very clear that we don’t know what criteria AirBnB is using for this.

The example that the article gave was an unbanned user that tried to use another banned user’s credit card to book a stay. It’s not exactly surprising to me that this resulted in their being banned as well…

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u/julbull73 Mar 01 '23 Faith In Humanity Restored

AirBnB a great idea, that is now corrupted to its core.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23

The only reason AirBnB was ever able to work is because it sidestepped a ton of legal regulations that hotels have to adhere to.

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u/thisissteve Mar 01 '23

Same thing with food runners and ride shares. They're legal loopholes with an app attached, thats how they got big.

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u/Delision Mar 01 '23

I’m not really well-informed on this subject, but what is the legal loopholes that food runner apps like DoorDash are exploiting?

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u/thisissteve Mar 01 '23

Contracted labor and an ambiguous job category. Tip reliant wages on people who deliver goods for a living isn't something we really had before, and not nearly at this scale. This is also why I'll never tip an Amazon driver because if they see enough tips they'll reclassify their drivers as a tipped position next too so they can pay them under typical minimum wage.

It's ridiculously common for workers to be misclassified, especially as contractors because it places less liability on the company. This is what the push to make uber drivers real employees was about because they dont really fit the definition of a contracted employee, but what's the IRS gonna do to rich people or their companies these days. Best bet would be state level legislation because the federal government is broken, can barely pass one budget a year.

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u/chillbro_bagginz Mar 02 '23

Also to add on, a big loophole for a long time was that none of these drivers were insured for commercial use but using their own personal vehicles. And not sure about local licenses but those weren’t adhered to either.

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u/gamophyte Mar 01 '23

I am out of the loop, never stayed at one, and haven't heard much other than some people stay at them. What's the main concern?

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u/ccdsg Mar 01 '23

Airbnb was a way to “rent” out your house if you weren’t there or something as an alternative to hotels, companies and individuals are now buying properties and listing them on Airbnb among other things and charge ridiculous flippant fees that make the service overall less practical than just getting a hotel in many cases.

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u/wayoverpaid Mar 01 '23

And to this end, every time I've stayed at an AirB&B which was clearly a lived-in home, I rather enjoyed the experience. The furnishings are nice (because it's the owner's home) and the requests are pretty reasonable.

The rise of the AirB&B which exists only to be a short term rental place has sucked. Cheap furnishings, unresponsive owners, and at least once instance of "sorry you can't check in yet the cleaning lady has the only key" after we got off the plane.

It's great as a way to address an inefficiency in the market - if I am going away for a month, why should my home be empty if some other nice people could be there on the cheap?

It's crap as a pure profit-seeking enterprise because it's a race to the bottom on costs. Clean the house as much as you can so that our cleaning crew doesn't have to do any real work. Enjoy the dollar store cookware because there's no fucking way we're going to invest in a guest experience. And because there's no common brand, there's not a lot of incentive to get a repeat experience.

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u/julbull73 Mar 01 '23

It also was able to skirt standard hotel/temporary lodging regulations which is why they were so much cheaper.

Aka they allowed for a loop hole to deregulate safety items. This ranged from things like the massive spread of bed bugs getting worse to literally deaths from fire. COVID made this even worse.

Not to mention AirBnB was a middle man, so they didn't really care about the property OR THE customer. They simply collect their chunk and move on. So high risks for everyone all around.

BUT end of the day, its definitely a great idea to allow for VRBO specializing in small and short term rentals vs a vacation.

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u/vaheg Mar 01 '23

I remember when I was a trade show, and a lady who really had so many problems with technology, was asking questions without wanting answers etc, just overall clueless and she was saying she was looking for stuff for her Airbnb appartments.. and I think that's the moment Airbnb quality went fully down, when every clueless person was able to just get apartments with only purpose of doing Airbnb

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u/UltravioletClearance Mar 01 '23

Same thing happened to Amazon when everyone started treating it as a get rich quick scheme. As Amazon cracked down on one scheme another one would pop up. The worst being the dietary supplement trend, when you could know nothing about health and wellness yet launch a "successful" supplement business. It's even worse than buying supplements from an MLM hun because at least the MLM hun has physically handled their products.

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u/stevendaedelus Mar 01 '23

Fuck AirBnB. They banned me because I questioned an extra $2 fee they charged me for no apparent reason. They never even bothered to send a response or let me know that I was banned, much less for what reason. Scammy motherfuckers.

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u/SpicyBagholder Mar 01 '23

Jokes on airbnb , people are back to hotels now, you played yourselves greedy fucks

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23

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u/anrwlias Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23

In other news, I banned AirBNB from my life because it's closely associated with driving up housing costs, harming neighborhoods, and allowing predatory and anti-consumer behavior.

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u/drsilentfart Mar 02 '23

I live an a neighborhood that's 43% short term rentals. Many that aren't rentals are just weekend/special occasion houses for the owners. My street has 5 or 6 full timers. So weird. My city has limited new applicants to neighborhoods that are under 20% short term rentals. Thank God.

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u/andrewsad1 Mar 01 '23

ABNB is doing to housing what crypto did to graphics cards. Fuck rent seekers.

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u/Smanginyall Mar 01 '23

this is wacky. would suck to be a relative to a crazy and be completely disassociated with them but get banned from stuff anyways.

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u/halfdecenttakes Mar 01 '23

Yeah my sister sucks most of the time. Always has drama that isn’t her fault, always interjecting herself into other crazy peoples drama. Police involved with whatever fight she has going on. We live close by but it’s so exhausting that I barely see her or speak to her anymore, have my own family and such to worry about.

Totally the type to get me on a list like this lol.

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u/Advanced_Pop4507 Mar 01 '23

We ran one when they first became a thing. Reality is they wont tell you why they banned you. We had the only one in college town without any hotels so it was doing well before the ban. About a month later someone finished up refurbing a new building on main street with 16 airbnb units….we couldn’t find any reason to ban us, they wouldn’t say, so the only conclusion we came to is they shut us down to favor this bigger operator. Ya know it was really no big deal. We made some money, didnt have any major incidents. we considered is a successful venture. The major issue i had was that, since i was banned. I assumed they should have no use for the photos of the inside and outside of my property. Even though in their terms of service it states that you can request an account deletion, it does not state that they will do it, only you can request one. After 3 attempts they said that language is only in there for EU users and the US consumer protection laws dont force them to delete personal info once not needed. Ive had a bad taste in my mouth ever since when it comes to Airbnb

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u/robfrisina Mar 01 '23

Minority Report - Pre- Crime Division LOL 🏡

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u/dumbreddit Mar 01 '23

This is exactly what reddit does. People get banned everyday from subs they never have even visited because they posted somewhere else. If reddit had some type of friend network, I am 1,000% sure they would ban off that too.

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u/Michelanvalo Mar 01 '23

Reddit does have a friend system but it's not a LinkedIn/Facebook style network yet

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u/gods-chewtoy Mar 01 '23

Oh no! Now users will have to check into a hotel instead where they will save money and won't be asked to do laundry! How horrible!

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u/P0RTILLA Mar 01 '23

This isn’t new. Right before they went public my wife was banned. No explanation she had prior stays with good reviews and they banned her upcoming stay. A call to them customer service said they can’t review or contest it. We booked a stay on my account and when we used her card I was banned. She had a non-violent non-theft conviction over 5 years prior to this point. Contrary to what their website said they banned her with no recourse.

The only way I could get us reinstated was to publicly shame them on Twitter. It’s literally the only way companies react to anything anymore.

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u/brexdab Mar 01 '23

This seems like it's treading dangerously close to civil rights violations.

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u/MickMcMackMac Mar 01 '23

Ah... We've now entered the era of Minority Report.

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u/wjgatekeeper Mar 02 '23

Not that much of a secret. My daughter rented an Airbnb house . The gas grill caught on fire (accident). Fire department was called. We were able to put out the fire before they arrived. Minor damage to the house. A little bit of scorched paint on the exterior of the house and melted wheels on the grill. Called homeowner who was way cool. Her first question was to ask if everyone was ok. Said not to worry about the minor damage to the grill and house. They had insurance and said were also covered by Airbnb. Told us not to give out our insurance info if Airbnb called. They did, we didn't give our insurance info. My daughter's account got cancelled. A few months later we tried to do a rental on my account and found I was banned too. That's their choice. It's a shitty way to do business. There are plenty other services out there; VRBO, Orbitz, Vacasa. Will never use them again even if they begged me to come back.

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u/OLPopsAdelphia Mar 02 '23

Nothing has made me appreciate a hotel more than an Airbnb.

Not to mention, hotels don’t charge $100 per night and $500 in cleaning fees.

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u/No-Menu-4211 Mar 01 '23

What things get them banned in the first place?

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23

I’m banned from Airbnb for a 2006 cannabis charge. We sometimes stay in airbnbs but under my wife’s name. I could see her being impacted by this policy.

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u/Psypho_Diaz Mar 01 '23

They're fucked anyway. The very industry they set out to beat is now cheaper than them while offering a standard in commodities.

I'm traveling and trying too both save money and reduce stress in keeping track of things. Should i choose:

Airbnb were it cost 5x more, have a bunch of random ass rules I'll have to read when i get there, clean up after myself, smell mothballs, worry about not doing something perfectly and getting extra costs tacked on.

Hotel that cost 1/5th, have industrial standards rules that i can read well in advanced if I don't know them, a cleaning service, hopefully smell a pleasant smell (not always), only worried about losing my card key and not finding my room when I'm drunk.

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u/lilBob1989 Mar 01 '23

Where the fuck are u staying that a hotel is 20% the price of an airbnb…? That the airbnb isn’t an entire house?

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u/screwyou00 Mar 01 '23 edited Mar 01 '23

I can see Southern California having AirBnBs that are not the entire house, and are just as expensive per night as a good hotel.

I've only done AirBnB once in LA and we didn't get the entire house. I've also done it a few times in Sacramento and had it happen once where what you really got were the bedrooms because the owners stayed onsite and told us at the door we couldn't use anything else other than the bedrooms and the one shared bathroom connecting those rooms. Didn't leave a good review for that place.

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u/overzeetop Mar 02 '23

Can confirm. I stayed in LA for a night to see a friend and I got a real hotel room at a mid-level major flag hotel chain cheaper than any single bedroom listed on Airbnb after fees. And this wasn’t “in the city” - I’m talking suburban backwaters like El Monte and West Covina.

Airbnb is a far cry from 8 years ago when you could get a single room /shared for $25-30/night or a 2-3br with kitchen fir $100 and minimal fees in a mid-tier city.

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u/Bkwordguy Mar 01 '23

Back to using hotels.

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u/Scarlet109 Mar 01 '23

At least hotels don’t force you to do chores

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u/Bkwordguy Mar 01 '23

NGL, I've stayed at a couple of very nice Airbnbs. But there were still chores, and weird rules, and restrictions on the number of guests, and weird looks from neighbors, and awkward parking.

The nicer the Airbnb the more eggshells you have to walk on while there, so to speak.

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u/RevolutionaryFox9613 Mar 01 '23

Wish cities would just ban Airbnb

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u/Mysterious_Bee8811 Mar 01 '23

Thailand banned AirBnB for short term (less then a month) rental :O

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u/k1lk1 Mar 01 '23

NYC as well, unless the owner lives full time in the rental.

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u/heywhadayamean Mar 01 '23

I’m not a fan of bans but I think businesses should be charged for the impact they have on society. Are Airbnbs causing housing availability issues and prices to rise? Okay, raise taxes on Airbnb places to offset that and move the market.

Then again, I have no experience or education related to policy so this could be a terrible idea.

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u/Speculater Mar 01 '23

In my neighborhood there are 4 AirBnBs within 500ft of me. I don't have neighbors anymore. Just a constant flow of guests. It sucks.

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u/[deleted] Mar 01 '23

This sounds wise. I had friends who got banned from many places for being horrible and they would just have their other friends pay next time.

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u/Rubyheart255 Mar 01 '23

Social credit score.

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u/Notwhoiwas42 Mar 01 '23

Air BnB is trying to end itself. Between allowing the excessive cleaning fees and chore lists which often include what the cleaning fee should cover and this new guilt by association it's easier,and often cheaper to just stay in a hotel.